Poll for the thread "Mojang chat report"

[CrazyCloudCraft]

Hello,
I would like what you think about the Mojang chat report. Using the poll module.
This is only a futher thread from:

Mojang chat report

Hello everyone, i don't like the new mojang chat report system, so here are my thoughts. If i investigated it correctly, since 1.19 there are two new fields in the ClientboundPlayerChatPacket: timeStamp and saltSignature. I think these fields are used for identification and verification of the...

forums.papermc.io

 

[Mezden]

If this is in the name to cut down toxic players then you're making an embarrassing move. All this does is give toxic players more power.

 

[MiniDigger]

If this is in the name to cut down toxic players then you're making an embarrassing move. All this does is give toxic players more power.

Like how?

 

[theshypig]

Like how?

Griefers and trolls can actually impact on normal players with this by setting up situations in game and then reporting them. Even if its a temporary ban or a ban removed on appeal it still has impact. In fact it has impact now because servers will be frightened to invite new players in incase they have an issue with the e.g. brewery plugin and my danish players drinking in game age 16 etc. Thats just one example of many

How about me being reported for discussing weed with my Canadian players, or someone asking for help with their self harming impulses. All of those are offences in this system, all are reportable, all are a group of adults socialising normally

 

[HyperSoop]

Like how?

Overall, your opinion is positive because you are sure the system will work as intended and only the worst law-breaking players will recieve punishments. Both of this is simply wrong.
The system will not work as intended, at least not under the rule of Microsoft. There will be false bans, there will be successful mass reporting, and the appeal process will be awful, if existent at all. From what we know, the moderation will be done by the same team that works with Bedrock edition, and the practices of chat moderation there led to no one talking at all in fear of a ban. They are not going to have professional human moderators, that's simply impossible to execute well in these scales.
And the system accounts for short bans - Mojang have even been talking about bans of 24 hours and less, which logically means you can get punished for the most minor of things. Temporarily, but it's still a horrible interference.

 

[MiniDigger]

From what we know

No you don't know that. You speculate, that's not helpful. Stick to what is publicly announced please.

 

[HyperSoop]

No you don't know that. You speculate, that's not helpful. Stick to what is publicly announced please.

hey, if you don't believe my word, i'll dig around for the sources of the info

 

[HyperSoop]

No you don't know that. You speculate, that's not helpful. Stick to what is publicly announced please.

at the end, we'll see
There actually seems to be mostly speculation on whether the same moderation team will be used but again, it's very not likely that someone like Microsoft will have a flawless moderation system and it's undeniable (even from listed report reasons!) that punishments will be issued for not only law crimes, but also very-very subjective bad behaviour.

And it also can't be denied that it is a minority that likes the feature, not a loud minority that dislikes it. Look at the poll. And just think about that - the multiplayer scene in java edition, the one that gave us such a nice community, is all going to be turned into a corporation's belonging and a regulated enviroment. Is that your idea of a community better than the current one?

If you worry about the abstract "moms" who like the feature - instead of actually finding a friendly enough server to play on, they start complaining about the whole multiplayer scene to the developers, this is just hillarious. The point of the current enviromnt is for different servers to exist, there are anarchy servers and family friendly ones - and they all co-exist in the same game. If what, it's the people who need to be poined at the direction of suitable sevrers, not the non-family-friendly servers censored, because freedom is the point of minecraft. If servers get regulated, this would be more convenient for the "moms" who could have found a suitable server either way, just with a bit wore effort, but terrible for everyone else who now have no choice but to play on family-friendly servers. As a wise someone said, you don't put a 8 y/o into a bar for adults and then complain that the bar is bad. You don't report the bar to the govenment because it suddenly exists, you go to a more soft and cozy cafe if you dislike it.

forgive me if i was a bit too emotional here tho

 

[electronicboy]

1) Not a single poll that I've seen yet to reaches even 500 points, but, yea, the majority. most people don't care to go out of their way to defend this system, most people frankly do not care. I know that there are many concerns, they're being brought to Mojang, and are at the very least slowly reacting on it.

2) Many western governments have a "regulate your platforms or we'll force you to regulate them" message going out, that's why many platforms over the past few years have been rolling out and improving moderation tools, Minecraft is just the next "victim"

3) The current environment allows players to play on servers, all of which have agreed to the EULA, and expected to deal with stuff applicable to their server; i.e. ensuring that they follow regulations, GDPR, data protection, COPPA, reporting illegal activities, etc, etc; It feels like we hardly go a year without somebody somewhat big in the community being exposed for being a creep, and those are just what we know, mojang is wanting to release tools to deal with this mess, and their own legal responsibility to moderate their platform. "but, we run the servers!", doesn't absolve mojang of their own legal duties here.

4) the "just play elsewhere!" is a shitty thing to say when you can pretty much follow anybody around, I've heard a few stories of females within my friend group whom have had the odd person try to follow them around servers, I know that there's been several tools which will pretty much let you follow people around a good % of servers on server lists, or platforms like enjin which where heavily used by the community, "just go elsewhere" is a pretty shitty thing to say to somebody who's being targeted by harassment and grooming.

 

[HyperSoop]

1) Not a single poll that I've seen yet to reaches even 500 points, but, yea, the majority. most people don't care to go out of their way to defend this system, most people frankly do not care. I know that there are many concerns, they're being brought to Mojang, and are at the very least slowly reacting on it.

2) Many western governments have a "regulate your platforms or we'll force you to regulate them" message going out, that's why many platforms over the past few years have been rolling out and improving moderation tools, Minecraft is just the next "victim"

3) The current environment allows players to play on servers, all of which have agreed to the EULA, and expected to deal with stuff applicable to their server; i.e. ensuring that they follow regulations, GDPR, data protection, COPPA, reporting illegal activities, etc, etc; It feels like we hardly go a year without somebody somewhat big in the community being exposed for being a creep, and those are just what we know, mojang is wanting to release tools to deal with this mess, and their own legal responsibility to moderate their platform. "but, we run the servers!", doesn't absolve mojang of their own legal duties here.

4) the "just play elsewhere!" is a shitty thing to say when you can pretty much follow anybody around, I've heard a few stories of females within my friend group whom have had the odd person try to follow them around servers, I know that there's been several tools which will pretty much let you follow people around a good % of servers on server lists, or platforms like enjin which where heavily used by the community, "just go elsewhere" is a pretty shitty thing to say to somebody who's being targeted by harassment and grooming.

Why haven't there been any legal troubles for Mojang in the last decade or so?

 

[electronicboy]

Because that's not how it works, platforms are generally protected against the actions of individuals on their services, a Mojang employee doesn't get arrested if somebody on their platform threatens to blow up a building, at best Mojang could offer minimal information about players, where it exists, and that's the burden of their responsibility, legally. However, as said, there have been many calls by western governments for platforms to improve moderation tools and protect people on their platforms, you have companies like Facebook and Twitter, begging for regulations, such regulations would stand a chance to put more culpable responsibility on Mojang as a company for actions going on within their platform, hence why mojang, and many other companies, have likely started to finally start pushing out this type of tooling.

 

[mayuna_]

Because that's not how it works, platforms are generally protected against the actions of individuals on their services, a Mojang employee doesn't get arrested if somebody on their platform threatens to blow up a building, at best Mojang could offer minimal information about players, where it exists, and that's the burden of their responsibility, legally. However, as said, there have been many calls by western governments for platforms to improve moderation tools and protect people on their platforms, you have companies like Facebook and Twitter, begging for regulations, such regulations would stand a chance to put more culpable responsibility on Mojang as a company for actions going on within their platform, hence why mojang, and many other companies, have likely started to finally start pushing out this type of tooling.

If they push these kinds of tools, at least they should be working without any apparent exploits. The current chat report feature in Java is easily exploitable (and, at least, if they won't revert this feature, they will fix most of those exploits, since it would harm the community more than help)

 

[electronicboy]

Yea, part of the joys is the fact that they've gotta strengthen their ability to trust the client, which, creative mode sets a good strong precient there, lol
I'm not 100% fond of the system, it's just the sad reality that these days stuff like this is becoming somewhat of a requirement for companies, and there are defo issues within the community which I think it's hard to say that there hasn't been a long standing need to address, I have some level of faith towards them sorting this out, seems that they've slowly been addressing stuff, but, I can't say that it doesn't kinda make me feel bleh