Mojang chat report

TrOpHiiE

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Oct 15, 2022
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@Staff I would apreciate if this post could probably be locked (with or without a statement from you) as I (and probably others) can't see a good reason of keeping it active if replies like those from TrOpHiiE are the result. This is just me tho...
Huh, I don't know what am I doing wrong. Anyways.

Children don't want school... does it mean we don't need it?
The argument "Nobody needs it" is a faulty one here, because preventive actions are often needed before bad stuff happens because when it happens you're knee deep in the sh*t, I can tell you that.
This is also not really a valid argument. Adults and mod makers are not children. They know what they want and have reasons for it. Children do not. And in the later stages of school children realize they want school and are thankful for being educated. "preventive actions", I don't know why but mojang is not smarter then you, they arent our parents. I mean Minecraft literally became what it is because Mojang gave the players freedom over the game, and trusted them?
Also, funny that you mention vaccines as an example, because there are people that don't want it (Anti-vac people) and also cases where people didn't want/need one... Just look at Covid. I'm sure that at its start nobody was thinking "Oh those people are getting sick... Better demand vaccination!". It only started once it was declared a pandemic.
This is also missing the point. Instead of saying that my example is wrong. Defeat the argument. Anyways : The anti vac people are the minority, and also are the people defending the chat report system. And we know the anti vac people don't really know anything and that their opinion is almost always faulty. And no vaacines weren't only used for covid. They also were used before the pandemic. For other diseases.
t's not really. If you insult a police officer, you get fined. And nobody has to accept being insulted by others and can take legal actions... Granted going to court because someone said the N-Word to you would be an extreme thing, but there is a fundamental law that nobody has to accept harassment against themself in any way.
It seems like to me, that you didn't read my whole argument. "You won't get arrested for swearing in minecraft". That is true. I never said anything about real-life.
Also, regarding the drug usage thing. I just couldn't think of a better example here in the short amount of time I have.
Huh? Why do you have short amount of time. Take your time please! I love discussing opinions. I am not hostile towards you. But you saying that the thread should be locked because my replies is kinda disappointing. I mean wasn't this thread created to exactly discuss this?
No. A and B happen WHEN it is enabled... Disabling it will disable chat signing which also makes it possible for fabricating messages by manipulating them. That's why chat reports are disabled when chat signing is too.
I don't think you understand. You said and I quote " And in such a case only messages that A) have a valid signature". You only don't have a valid signature if you disable it. Which I am arguing for. So for you to include this in your point is nonsensical. If nobody disables it, every message has a valid signature.
I can't recall Mojang allowing people to distribute their MC client with mods directly build into it. There's a reason Mod loader and separate mod jars exist, as distributing the modified client or server jar is not allowed. Mojang simply didn't care so far to really take actions because legal stuff is expensive and time consuming.
What? Papermc is exactly that. a modified server jar. or a mod jar. whatever? Papermc literally modifies it?
Also, please stop using Hypixel as a go-to excuse for something being okay... They are a multi-million (I assume?) business. They have actual direct connections to Mojang, if not even people from Mojang working with them. Like they do contact Mojang regularely to ask if something they want to do is okay in a legal sense.
That's awesome if true! If hypixel contacts mojang and ask, that means they are allowed to do it. So I guess this also strengthens the point?

If Paper would intentionally disable/remove/block the report system, then they would attrackt those people that want to hide from it or profit from the lack of such a system which would again cause more issues, conflicts and alike. In the end would Paper earn a bad reputation which in the worst case could get Mojang to take actions
As discussed before, people don't want this chat report system. So papermc would rather get praised for it. I have just started playing All the mods 8, and saw that they have nochatreports. They aren't getting hate?
And if you think everyone acts innocent you're wrong tbh
I never saw a predator going and saying stuff that would get him arrested. I mean they try to lure people by being nice and innocent?


"Like, if you believe someone is right based on like/dislike ratio, then this Reddit post by u/maryatid must be the absolute truth as it has 37.2k Upvotes, despite it being a bunch of fabricated lies and false claims."


I would like for you to take your time, you don't have any pressure! I am not dismissing the proof. You posted a reddit thread that had a lot likes and was wrong. But that reddit thread is about a accusation not about a opinion. Obviously people can be wrong! But we were talking about people supporting it, people supporting something wrong doesn't change the fact that people support it. So what are you trying to tell me with that reddit post. I never said that that video loses its authenticity because of the dislikes. It just shows the general opinion.

That argument makes zero sense. By that definition we should also remove camels from 1.20 because nobody ever asked for them, lol
Plenty people asked for better moderation tools for ages, central ban systems like mcbans were attempted multiple times, it's good that Mojang finally took the initiative.
That's a valid point. But I also want to point out that the camels also were not backlashed and hated. It's a shame that you didn't read beyond that, because exactly for that reason I stated other arguments, if you don't like one or have a valid reason to not support it. look at the other one. But I obviously can't tell you what to do.
Mcbans doesn't ban you from playing on private servers with your friends, or on other servers which still allow you to play. (Mcbans bans people from a group of servers. A Ban from mojang bans you from every server including your own, your friends etc. I think that these two can be seen as systems that have something in common but still are seperate in the severity of punishment)


I just want to point out again, that I dont hate you for your opinion (even though I could have probably worded a few things nicer). I want to discuss different opinions and come to different conclusions. Wasn't this thread basically made for this. Discussing different opinions doesn't make the other side your enemey. I really like being proved wrong (or rather having shown a different perspective) and forming a more sophisticated opinion. Minidiggers argument was a valid one and yeah it kinda makes my point less valuable.

I need to go now. If you guys keep posting I will try to reply and actively discuss later. Have a nice day y'all!
 
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Andre_601

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Feb 8, 2022
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A Ban from mojang bans you from every server including your own, your friends etc. I think that these two can be seen as systems that have something in common but still are seperate in the severity of punishment)
Minor correction: While you can say Mojang banned you, is it not a ban from "every server", at least not in the sense you usually assume a ban in MC would be like. It's more disabling the Multiplayer feature for the client.
Also, bans usually are temporary and only real extreme cases result in a perm ban. I have yet to find a single popular person who was permanently banned for no justified reason.
 

Machine Maker

Paper Developer
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Dec 17, 2021
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What? Papermc is exactly that. a modified server jar. or a mod jar. whatever? Papermc literally modifies it?

Just wanted to clarify that Paper does NOT distribute a modified server jar. Distributing a modified server jar does violate Mojang's license on their product. We use Paperclip to create a binary patch of the vanilla server and distribute that. Then the vanilla server and this binary patch are downloaded and applied to your computer locally.
 
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Andre_601

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What? Papermc is exactly that. a modified server jar. or a mod jar. whatever? Papermc literally modifies it?
(I know Machine Maker gave a reply, but I feel like it can be a bit more accurate and also explain how Spigot does it)

Wrong. The paper jar you download is just a piece of software that downloads the Vanilla server from Mojang and applies patches to it at runtime before starting the newly patched server jar (You can check that by opening the cache folder located next to the plugins folder. It will contain the vanilla server jar and also the patched jar).

You may now come with the argument "But what is with Spigot?" to which I can say: Spigot also doesn't distribute modified jar files directly. It provides Build tools which have a (somewhat more complicated) system that does this:
  1. Download Vanilla server jar
  2. Decompile and deobfuscate it using Mojang Mappings (For newer releases. Older ones use Spigot mappings)
  3. Apply Craftbukkit API patches
  4. Apply Spigot API patches
  5. Recompile the jar
There is a reason Spigot has BuildTools and Paper has patching. Mojang is not allowing the redistribution of modified server jars, which makes sites such as getbukkit break their ToS/EULA or whatever legal file applies to this. And before you come with the reason "Then why was it not taken down yet?": It's because taking legal actions both take a lot of money to get the gears moving and a lot of time too. And Mojang would gain little to no (financial) compensation from this in the end.

Meanwhile is the patching of the vanilla jar, or building the modified one from source a legal gray area and accepted by mojang as long as the methods of obtaining the server code are through normal means (in this case by downloading the jar and deobfuscate + decompile it) that don't include redistribution of it.

That are more or less the details about this stuff that I gathered throughout my years in the community (And by also asking for clarifications on both Spigot and PaperMC).
 
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TrOpHiiE

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Oct 15, 2022
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I probably worded it wrong yes thats on me. I wanted to express that papermc could change it without getting in legal trouble, if they are already able to change so many other things. I really didn't look into how it works (that's why I said "whatever") (so correct me if im wrong here, and if it would be really against the EULA). My thought process was just like this (Papermc changes things --> so they can change this --> why would it be illegal to change this thing now).

but I feel like it can be a bit more accurate and also explain how Spigot does it)

But ay, that's really interesting. thanks for the clarification
 

_11

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There's a major difference between modifying the server in general, and modifying it to disable the reporting system. Mojang explicitly permits modifying their software in the EULA, provided mojang code isn't distributed (hence Paperclip / Buildtools as explained above). However, while I haven't bothered to look, it seems reasonable to expect that mojang has explicitly disallowed screwing with the reports system with the intention of disabling it in the EULA, or if not, then they will.

"Well if they disallow it in the EULA then why are servers that block it still online?" Because Mojang's EULA enforcement for smaller servers sucks, which is a known fact. However, if something major like Paper violated it, then suddenly Mojang would take a lot more interest, not to mention certainly cutting off Paper's own communications with Mojang staff.

Paper has tried to be the better person on the matter by taking a neutral stance. At this point aside from Mojang forcing their hand to crack down on it (not that I think they would do that), I don't expect anything will change that stance.

Disclaimer: Not Paper staff, just what I've observed
 
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TrOpHiiE

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Oct 15, 2022
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mojang has explicitly disallowed screwing with the reports system with the intention of disabling it in the EULA, or if not, then they will.
Yes they haven't explicitly disallowed it, but it could fall under the category "damaging our assets/reputation". (take this with a grain of salt, I don't have any idea about legal stuff)


So as I understand like you said, its more like to not force mojangs hand (or to put them in a situation where they feel like they need to act)? I mean that clears it up alot for me.